FAQ - DMT Frequently Asked Questions and Troubleshooting Guide
|Note:||This page is a transcription of the 'DMT Frequently Asked Questions and Troubleshooting Guide'.|
- 1 DMT overview
- 2 DMT Chemistry and Body
- 3 DMT and Society
- 4 DMT Extraction
- 4.1 Where to start?
- 4.2 What is the best tek?
- 4.3 Is my solvent/chemical OK to use?
- 4.4 Is this material or container ok to use with my chemicals?
- 4.5 Is plastic OK to use for my extraction?
- 4.6 What are the different bases one can use?
- 4.7 What are the different acids one can use?
- 4.8 How can I convert sodium bicarbonate into sodium carbonate
- 4.9 How long each acid cook?
- 4.10 How many acid cooks?
- 4.11 Can I make one long cook instead of 3 shorter ones?
- 4.12 Which ratio of MHRB:Lye:Water is the best?
- 4.13 Can I scale down/up the amounts stated in a tek?
- 4.14 Can I divide the extraction in multiple containers?
- 4.15 Can I make one big pull instead of few smaller ones?
- 4.16 How big should the pulls be / How much to pre-evaporate before freezing?
- 4.17 The layers wont separate, what to do?
- 4.18 My Solvent is Brown/Dark, what to do ?
- 4.19 How to pull / get the solvent off from the mix?
- 4.20 Should I wash my spice?
- 4.21 No precipitation or low yield?
- 4.22 Melting/dissapearing crystals after freeze precipitation / Whats the best way to retrieve crystals after freezing?
- 4.23 Only getting goo with Acacia extraction
- 4.24 How to safely heat a solvent ?
- 4.25 How does one recrystallize?
- 4.26 How many times can I reuse my solvent?
- 4.27 What to do with the waste?
- 4.28 How Can I Extract DMT From Phalaris?
- 4.29 Can I use another solvent like xylene after having pulled with naphtha?
- 5 DMT Usage/Methods of administration
- 5.1 Is my DMT ok to smoke? Is yellow or are other colors of DMT bad?
- 5.2 How to brew ayahuasca or analogues (mimosa hostilis / syrian rue)?
- 5.3 Whats the best smoking method?
- 5.4 I dont get any effects/light buzz only, what to do?
- 5.5 Fear going into a trip
- 5.6 Denied breakthrough / Dark DMT trips / Not good experiences anymore ?
- 5.7 What are the dosages for ... ?
- 5.8 What is the best setting/context to consume spice?
- 5.9 What about other ingestion methods (intranasal, intrarectal, Atomizer/E-cig etc) ?
- 5.10 Can DMT be IVed?
- 5.11 How can I estimate the amount of mimosa?
- 6 DMT/Plant storage
- 7 DMT Allies
- 8 Plant sources
- 9 DMT Nexus Forum and Wiki Questions
- 10 Reference
What is DMT, Where do I learn the basics?
DMT is a naturally occuring substance, present in trace amounts in normal human metabolism (and its purpouse is still relatively unknown, check question 2.1 , as well as in a variety of plants and animals.
It can be extracted from some of these plants and smoked for some very strong psychedelic/entheogenic effects lasting 10 minutes. It can also be taken orally, but we have an enzyme (MAO) in our stomach that destroys dmt if taken orally, so for taking orally DMT must be acompanied by a substance that inhibits this enzyme (MAOI, or MAO Inhibitor), which is also present in some other plants.
Ayahuasca, a sacred drink used by indigenous people of the Amazon, is an example of a drink usually made with a dmt-containing plant (Psychotria viridis), together with a MAOI containing plant (Banisteriopsis caapi), that is drank orally for a psychedelic/entheogenic experience lasting around 4 hours.
When smoking, we do not need to use MAOI because we do not have MAOs in our lungs. Nevertheless, some people like to also ingest MAOIs before vaporizing DMT, or vaporizing a MAOI together with the DMT (such as in changa), to make the experience last longer.
For learning more about DMT, this whole webpage is dedicated to it. Here's a few links
- Brief Overview of DMT
- Wikipedia DMT Link
- The Dmt Nexus Wiki
- Frequently Asked Questions
- Main Dmt Nexus Forum
- List of abbreviations and their meanings
- List of chat acronyms & text shorthand
Are there different types of DMT?
DMT can be in salt form or in freebase form. A salt form means the DMT is attached to an acid molecule. DMT is naturally in salt form in the plants because of plant acids (for example dmt tannate or oxalate due to tannic or oxalic acid being present in some plants). When people extract DMT, they can make it in freebase form to smoke, because DMT in salt form can't be smoked, it has high boiling point and breaks down instead of vaporizing efficiently. Some salt forms like DMT fumarate can even be toxic to smoke due to creation of maleic anhydride during combustion.
Appart from being naturally in brews made of DMT containing plants like ayahuasca, DMT can also be made into salt for, for example DMT fumarate, when people extract it, because DMT fumarate is stable and can be stored for long, and it can be taken orally or intranasally. Check this for more info. Regarding dosages in different salt forms, one can read this thread. Each salt form of DMT have their own weight depending on the acid molecule weight (for example DMT fumarate's weight is around 76% DMT, 24% fumaric acid), so dosages could be adjusted proportionately to the amount of DMT when ingesting, but since each person is differently sensitive to DMT and since salt form may be a bit more effective to ingest orally, this "salt weight calculation" is not really necessary for DMT, one can just ingest according to these recommendations, starting low for first time, and adjusting according to own sensitivity and batch the next time.
There are other molecules which have the DMT structure built into them but they are not DMT, they have structural modifications, for example 4-HO-DMT also known as psilocin and 4-PO-DMT, psilocybin, the active compounds in mushrooms, which are different molecules altogether with their own particular effects. Small modifications in molecules can completely change effects. So psilocybin, psilocin, 5-MeO DMT, and 5-HO-DMT (bufotenine), plus others, are all different molecules, they are NOT the same as DMT. Each of them has different effects, pharmacology, etc etc. On the other hand, DMT freebase or DMT in salt form (tannate, acetate, fumarate) are all DMT.
Is the DMT experience "real" , or just a hallucination?
This has been discussed very thoroughly already in the DMT Nexus. If you are interested in this topic, instead of opening a new thread, please check the following links:
- What is 'real' and when is it useful to ask this?
- The improbability of Hyperspace
- The improbability of Hyperspace pt. II
DMT Chemistry and Body
Is it true the pineal gland produces DMT naturally and is involved in dreaming and death? What does DMT do in the body?
At this point there is no evidence to support the claim that DMT is produced in the pineal or brain. It is a speculation raised by Dr Rick Strassman due to his previous interest in the pineal. So far in humans, the key enzymes necessary for this have not been found present in the human brain, therefore it seem more likely it is produced elsewhere in the body, though some recent research has shown in primates these enzymes are present in pineal gland. In any case nothing is really proven yet so we must avoid making claims before more data comes in.
The supposed connection of DMT and dreams, and the idea that DMT is released when we die, both are speculation with no real evidence to back them up.
It IS proven, though, for decades already, that DMT is produced in the human body and is present at all times in trace amounts. The reason why it is there is still a matter of debate, and some scientists have proposed a few ideas with some evidence to back them up, all of which are mentioned in the last link below:
- Zero proof DMT is made in the brain
- I dislike the "DMT is responsible for your dreams" theory
- Rethinking DMT and the Pineal Gland
- The functions of DMT in our body: If DMT would be a neurotransmitter
- Endogenous DMT: Facts and Fiction
Is DMT dangerous?
Research has been conducted that indicates the relative safety of DMT. It does not cause physical damage, addiction, and any tolerance disappears very quickly. Ayahuasca, the DMT-containing brew from the Amazon, has been studied by multidisciplinary groups in Brazil and other countries. When consumed in a careful context, it presents no negative cognitive/psychiatric/social consequences, even in adolescents.
There is yet little research into vaporized dmt, but there seems to be no sign that it is in any way more dangerous physically than other administration forms. There are no reported deaths from smoking DMT. Smoking it will not lead to a dangerous overdose because the onset is so quick that one can only inhale a certain amount before being gone to ´hyperspace', without being able to smoke more until one is down again.
- People with extreme heart or other conditions for whom strong emotions could be dangerous are contra-indicated, just like a roller coaster would for them.
- It is important to notice that with any psychedelic, it is a very powerful emotional/mental experience, so those with personal or family psychiatric history, unstable emotionally or going through some very difficult moments in life should be extremely careful.
- Also, it is possible that during the experience, one temporarily loses orientation in the consensus reality, so smoking/ingesting next to a cliff, sharp objects, etc, is not a good idea. BE IN A PHYSICALLY SAFE ENVIRONMENT!
- DO NOT use MAOIs (so for example an ayahuasca brew) together with stimulants or SSRI medication
Appart from that, there are psychological issues to be considered. Please read the health and safety section linked below, as well as the scientific articles also linked below.
- Health And Safety Section
- Scientific Articles on DMT/Ayahuasca/Psychedelics
- Long term effects of smoking DMT
- DMT After-Effects
Is a MAOI diet / Ayahuasca fasting necessary? What kind of dangers are there with medication interaction?
Unlike some pharmaceutical MAOI, the Harmalas, alkaloids present in the caapi vine and syrian rue are reversible inhibitors of MAO-A, while Tyramine, the component in some food that could cause problems in big amounts, is eliminated partly by MAO-A and but also partly by the intact MAO-B (source ). Also for some pharmacological reason as shown in this diagram, tyramine can still be partly metabolized by MAO-A even during the harmala effects.
In other words, in terms of food interaction, the danger with reversible MAOI use (in for example ayahuasca or pharmahuasca with harmalas) and food interaction is very reduced. The necessity of the very strict dieting for ayahuasca with extensive list of what one must absolutely not eat is an exaggeration, though it is advised to eat light because extreme amounts of tyramine in some specific foods could theoretically still be a potential problem.
There seem to be no reports of actual life-threatening events with tyramine-containing foods and harmalas. There are even people that purposely ate tyramine-containing foods with no ill effects, but there have also been reports of negative symptoms such as very strong headaches and negative body load when mixing a heavy food consumption before/during/after harmala consumption. Several other variables may also be involved that are unrelated to tyramine and harmala-food interaction (variables such as for example exhaustion from the trip, vasodilation, the body/ayahuasca telling the person to 'eat better' in general, etc). Headaches seem specially common when mixing beer and harmalas.
In any case, it is generally considered common sense to eat light before and after the use of ayahuasca and analogues (and psychedelics in general). Just follow your good sense and you should be fine. To eer on the side of caution, the food to avoid eating (or over-eating) is aged or fermented food specially aged cheese, fermented or smoked meat (fish included) and soy products (though some soy products have also been found to have little tyramine content). Beer should also be avoided as some people have experienced negative interaction between MAOIs and beer. Apart from that, there are no real restrictions, eat lightly and all should be good :)
In relation to how long to wait after the last food before taking ayahuasca, this is very personal. Some like to have empty stomach and be fasting for 6 or more hours, but this is not necessary, and others feel it is even negative to fast for so long, because a too empty stomach might make one very tired during the ceremony, especialy at the end, and can also make purging a especially difficult or uncomfortable experience. Some consider better to have eaten something light (like some fruits or cereal or light sandwich) a couple of hours before ingesting ayahuasca/analogues.
Remember: With the exception of moclobemide, which stands in the same category as harmalas as far as reversibility and food interaction goes, avoid all other pharmaceutical MAOIs !! Pharmaceutical irreversible MAOIs are VERY dangerous to take without taking strong precautions with food and drug interaction.
What IS dangerous is interaction between any MAOIs (including harmalas) and stimulants or some medication such as SSRI medication such as prozac, or stimulants such as amphetamines or others. If you're taking SSRI's, do not consume MAOIs!! Do not mix stimulants with MAOIs either! Mixing stimulants/SSRIs with MAOIs can cause Serotonin Syndrome which may lead to convulsions or even death. For pharmaceuticals and substances that should NEVER be taken when consuming harmalas, check List 1 and List 2
- Do you experience tyramine interaction with harmalas?
- Will smoked Rue cause MAOI?
- Think iv cracked it
- Scientific publication on food containing tyramine
- scientific publication on interaction of MAOIs and tyramine
DMT and Society
Is dmt legal?
Posession and sales of DMT in its pure extracted/synthesized form is illegal, schedule 1 in USA and controlled by United Nations and can land you in jail if found in most countries.
Are the natural ingredients such as mimosa, and ayahuasca, illegal?
Whats the price of dmt / Can I trade dmt?
DO NOT BUY OR SELL DMT! We at the nexus are against selling/profiting with this incredible substance. We do not know and we do not want to know how much it costs in the street, we do not want it to be sold on the streets! This is not only disrespectful and shows a lack of understanding about the power of this substance, but its also a liability for the whole community. Dealing/trading DMT can attract the attention of authorities and create a problem not only for yourself but for all others in the community.
Talking about DMT sales or trade will result in suspension from the forum!
All the reasons why we dont believe in it are listed in the thread below
Where to start?
There are several ways of extracting DMT, and different ways use different chemicals and take different time. It is recommended that before embarking on extracting, one reads up at least a couple of different teks (link on the bottom) to understand the processes.
The basics of an extraction is:
DMT is present in many plant materials and can be isolated through simple processes. The most commonly used plant is Mimosa hostilis root bark, but there are other plants with good alkaloid profile such as certain Acacias and certain strains of Phalaris spp.
DMT in an acidic solution is in salt form and therefore water soluble, while DMT in a basic solution becomes a freebase and not water soluble but rather soluble in non-polar solvents (like limonene, naphtha, xylene, etc). This works similarly to most other alkaloids, with a few exceptions, for example harmalas freebase dont dissolve in the solvents mentioned above, but when you add a base to a solution containing harmalas, they just precipitate and you can filter them.
Back to DMT, non-polar solvents separate from water like oil, it stays as a layer on top. By playing with the pH (adding an acid or a base) you make the dmt move from one place to the other while most of other impurities dont, and then you separate the layers by pippeting/separatory funnel/decanting, and then retrieve the dmt from the non-polar solvent by evaporating it or freeze-precipitating (putting it in a closed container in the freezer, and as the temperature goes down the solubility of dmt in the solvent diminishes, so after some hours dmt precipitates and can be retrieved). There are differences depending on the process of extraction you use (for example limonene can't be evaporated and neither freeze precipitated, it's usually salted, as described in BLAB, but that is, in a very general way, how it works.
There are some new developed teks for extracting dmt with food-safe materials and/or no petro-chemical solvents, such as BLAB , Amor Fati's approach, or Q21Q21's extraction tek. The biggest advantage is, as said, the use of relatively non-toxic material and no petrochemicals but instead solvents such as limonene, which is basically pure orange oil. The disadvantage is that to retrieve the dmt from limonene, you cannot evaporate it (as limonene doesnt evaporate cleanly, it leaves gooey residues), and freeze precipitation also doesnt work (as even in freeze temperatures, dmt is still too soluble in it so it doesnt precipitate), so there are 2 extra steps, which are to 'salt out' the limonene by mixing it with an acidic solution, evaporating that solution and then freebasing the resulting product if one wants to smoke it (or just keeping the salt for storage or oral consumption), as explained in the teks mentioned above. These steps are just as easy as any other step done in the earlier steps of the extraction but the fact that its two extra steps means some extra time and work which some people might not want.
There are also the standard STB (straight-to-base) teks that have been used a lot before the food-safe/limo teks, the two most common being Noman's tek and Lazyman Tek. The mimosa (or whatever plant material extracted) is put straight in a basic solution from the beginning, with no acid-adding step, and hence the name. The advantage of STBs generally being that they need less steps, maybe simpler for beginners, and can usually be quicker, and the main disadvantage being the amount of lye/caustic soda they require (lye being dangerous if it spills because it causes serious chemical burns and could make one blind, though if done correctly it will not be on your final product. Also disadvantage of using much lye is it is watched in many places due to being used in meth production, so it might be suspicious to buy it, or even impossible to find, specially in some specific places of USA). Another possible disadvantage of STB teks is some people claim the final product is not as clean, its more yellow. Yellow dmt isnt necessarily a problem, though, some people even prefer it. Also, one can easily do a recrystalization (look below in the FAQ for explanation) which will effectively clean up the final product quickly and with very little solvent needed.
Then there are the A/B extractions (acid/base), such as Vovin's tek and Marsofold's tek. As the name suggests, the plant material is first simmered/boiled in acid 3x, filtered and later the base is added. The advantage being that when one is adding the base and mixing the solvent, the solids were already removed after the acid step, making it easier to mix the solvent, and easier to discard everything later. Also the acid step allows one to do a Defat, though usually that is considered a wasteful way of cleaning up because it needs a lot of solvent for removing a bit of fats, which can be accomplished more efficiently with a recrystallization on the final product. The disadvantage of an A/B is that it takes longer because of the initial acid step, and if one isnt thorough enough in this acid step one will lose a lot of actives when discarding the solids before moving on to the Base step.
What is the best tek?
There is no "best" tek. All teks featured in the Nexus Wiki should result in similar final product purity and yields, if correctly performed. Each tek has it's own characteristics regarding chemicals used, how long it takes, how thorough it's explained, if it includes optional clean up steps or not, etc. That is why, before deciding on one tek, it's important to read all (or at least some of them), also the "where to start" question above and the extraction overview linked there. That way you will have a better understanding of the processes instead of just blindly following a tek, which means you'll probably be more succesful with whichever tek you decide to use in the end.
Is my solvent/chemical OK to use?
Before using any solvent, one must make sure it is a clean evaporating solvent with no toxic/residual additives (or for other non-volatile chemicals used, make sure it has no toxic/unwanted additives). Always:
- Read the ingredients on the solvent's or chemical's label. Make sure it is pure with nothing appart from the desired chemical (for example: Naphtha/Aliphatic hydrocarbons)
- Google "solventbrand solvent/chemical msds", searching the brand of the solvent you have access to, to see if it has an msds, which usually contains more in depth information on what the product contains. For example "merck acetone msds". Or alternatively:
- Check the webpage linked in this thread and see if your solvent and its contents is featured there
- VERY IMPORTANT: Always do an evaporating test before using a solvent for the first time: Add a quantity of the solvent to a glass/pyrex/plate (do NOT use a cd) and let it evaporate. If it leaves residues of any kind, dont use it. If it evaporates cleanly, chances are its ok to use.
- Check this thread on whether your chem is ok to use or where to get the right chems.
Is this material or container ok to use with my chemicals?
The keyword to search is "Chemical compatibility" or "Chemical Resistance", plus the material and solvent/chemical you are looking for. Below are some good links to help you already find the information you want:
Is plastic OK to use for my extraction?
In short, better not. If you are going to use anyways (NOT recommended), be sure to check what kind of plastic it is, and that its compatible with the chemicals used, as in the links of the previous question. But again, better not use plastic and only use glass, read links below for explanations why:
What are the different bases one can use?
Always read the labels carefully and make sure there are no unwanted chemicals together with the desired base.
- For STB: Sodium Hydroxide/NaOH
- For A/B: Sodium Hydroxide/NaOH, Potassium Hydroxide/KOH
- For Dry tek: Calcium Hydroxide
What are the different acids one can use?
Always read the labels carefully and make sure there are no unwanted chemicals together with the desired acid.
Plenty of different kinds of acid will work, but generally people preffer the first one on the following list:
- Vinegar (acetic acid)
- Lemon Juice (citric acid)
- Phosphoric Acid
- Hydrochloric Acid/HCl/Muriatic Acid.
NOTE: Sulfuric acid is not very well suited towards this extraction, as it reacts with lye to form sodium sulfate which is very poorly water-soluble. This may result in a generous white precipitate.
2NaOH + H2SO4 => Na2SO4 + 2H2O
How can I convert sodium bicarbonate into sodium carbonate
How long each acid cook?
30 min - 2 hours cooks in a crockpot on low-medium (or just low fire on the stove). Some people avoid boiling and only simmer, but it appears DMT salts are very stable even at boil temperatures, so there doesnt seem to be diminishing yields when boiling. Also, it's important to stir once in a while during the acid cook.
How many acid cooks?
General consensus talks about 3 runs, 2 being minimum and 5 being over-careful.
Can I make one long cook instead of 3 shorter ones?
No. You can, but yield will be smaller. Like washing clothes, its better to make more cycles with clean water then only using the same water for washing all clothes.
Which ratio of MHRB:Lye:Water is the best?
For STBs, 1g MHRB:1g Lye:15ml Water is generally accepted as a good ratio. People have had success with significantly less water, but 15ml per g bark is a recommended amount because less than that might make the whole mixture too thick and it can make the separation of the solvent more difficult. Also, one actually needs much less lye but this amount of lye helps prevent emulsions forming as well helps break down the plant material so that dmt is more exposed to the water.
Alternatively, one can just add enough lye for the solution to turn completely black, and go ahead and extract. If emulsions form, add more lye. One does not need to worry about over-basifying, there's no such thing. Excess lye will stay behind in the water layer once you separate the solvent in any case.
Can I scale down/up the amounts stated in a tek?
Yes, just scale the quantities proportionally according to your situation.
Can I divide the extraction in multiple containers?
Yes you use multiple containers if necessary. But the more containers, more work and mess, so try to avoid using excessive amounts. Better to have all your main extraction in one or two containers max.
Can I make one big pull instead of few smaller ones?
No. You can, but yield will be significantly smaller. Like washing clothes, its better to make more cycles with clean water then only using the same water for washing all clothes.
How big should the pulls be / How much to pre-evaporate before freezing?
100ml per pull per 200g bark (or a 2:1 ratio of bark:naphtha) is a sensible recomendation. More wont hurt but it will waste solvent as you will have to evaporate much afterwards. Less solvent per pull is even better, as long as you repeat more pulls to compensate. Sometimes people use more solvent than this recommended amount, like when for example if using this ratio in one's container the layers are too thin and it is hard to separate the solvent (though there are tricks for better separation). If the plan is to freeze precipitate and one uses more naphtha than the recommended amount, it is recommended to pre-evaporate the naphtha before freezing.
The amount that one should pre-evaporate depends of course on how much solvent used. The idea about pre-evap is that the solvent should be as saturated as possible with dmt so that most or all of it precipitates when put in the freezer. If its not saturated enough, then not much (or not at all) will precipitate. So if one used more than 3:1 ratio of bark:solvent, then pre-evaporate enough to reach the equivalent of it (so if one used, lets say, 100ml per 100g bark, pre evaporating till a third of original volume is recommended). Here's an attempt to explain why not having it saturated enough may result in no or low yield
Later pulls will most likely be less saturated with dmt than first pulls, so for the later pulls (like lets say the 4th and 5th), it would be logical to pre-evaporate even more than the first pulls. In the example given above, instead of evaporating until a third of original volume, maybe one could evaporate until there is only a quarter or a fifth of original volume.
Some people gauge the amount of pre-evaporation by doing it until the solvent starts getting cloudy.
In any case, remember to re-use the naphtha after retrieving the crystals from precipitation, and/or evaporating it all the way down to see if there are any actives that remained in the naphtha after the freeze precipitation
If one is extracting a different plant or using a different solvent, then the ratio recommendation can change. Though in extractions that one salts out the solvent (like for example in BLAB and other limonene-based extractions), one can (and even should) use significantly more solvent, because all alkaloids will anyways be retrieved with the salting step.
The layers wont separate, what to do?
- Dont shake next time, if you did so! Instead, Stir/roll/turn upside down slowly, several times.
- Add more basic water/lye to the mix (either mix is not basic enough or too much plant matter for too little water)
- Make a warm water bath with the whole container (remember no fire sources near solvents, and leave top slightly open for preventing building up of pressure)
- Tapping on the side of the container/vibration (like sitting on top of washing mashine)
- Adding plenty of no-additives non-iodized salt (will make the water more polar and therefore chemically help in the separation)
My Solvent is Brown/Dark, what to do ?
It happens for some people that after mixing the solvent with the mimosa solution, the naphtha picks up a lot of color and when the layers are separated, there is no emulsion but the naphtha is very dark, brown/burgundy. The exact reasons for this are still unknown, but it seems to happen mostly with STB extractions, powdered bark and heated pulls. It may be that there are microscopic suspended particles of the mimosa/black liquid which for some reason refuse to settle, but nobody yet knows for sure.
Considering this is not an emulsion issue (if so, it can be solved as stated here), this issue can be solved by:
1- Wait a few hours and see if the color settles and the solvent layer gets clearer.
2- Separate the pull as you would normally, and do a sodium carbonate wash (explanation also here in the FAQ). If the wash isnt sufficient to get the dark away, then :
3- Do a 'mini A/B' (mixing the separated dark solvent with vinegar 3x, separating the vinegar and discarding the solvent. Then basify the vinegar by adding lye, and pull with fresh solvent)
How to pull / get the solvent off from the mix?
- STB: Each person finds his own way. One of the practical ways is to first, with HDPE or glass pipette/turkey baster/glass syringe, crudely separate the solvent and maybe a bit of the mimosa mix into a tall thin container. Then, with another pipette/glass syringe (or same one, washed), separate the solvent (it will be easier due to being thiner container, so solvent layer will be thicker than before) to the final container for evap or freeze precip. On this second separation, only pull out what you are sure you can do accurately, and the last bit throw back into the main container. Often people complain that the turkey baster wont hold the solvent well and will start releasing liquid as soon as you stop pulling. A glass syringe or pipette will work better, you can find them sold in lab/chem/medical supply stores or online in a variety of shops.
- A/B: Same as above, or also using a separatory funnel.
Should I wash my spice?
Washing spice has as a main function to eliminate any possible lye or other polar impurities (like droplets of the mimosa basic mix) from the final product, which might make the smoke harsher. Nevertheless, unless one was sloppy and some of the basic mimosa liquid came through to the solvent when separating, there should be nothing or very small amounts of it in your final product.
In any case if one feels better making sure the spice is cleaner (because we all know how important our mental state is in these experiences, even if its clean but if you're worried it might make the experience worse), or if one's spice is unusually harsh, then proceed to a sodium carbonate wash (DO NOT WASH WITH AMMONIA! Many people report losing yield with ammonia wash )
- Have your product still in the solvent, before evaporation/precipitation. If you have already in crystal form, redissolve in a naphtha/heptane/hexane.
- Add anywhere in between a pinch to 5 grams of sodium carbonate (yes, doesnt matter... All that is necessary is for it to be a basic solution) to 100ml clean water.
- Add your spice-containing solvent and the sodium carbonate solution together in a container. Mix/shake/whatever (emulsions will not form).
- Separate the solvent from the sodium carbonate solution using pippette/turkey baster/syphon/separatory funnel. One can repeat steps 2-4 if desired, but not strictly necessary
- Freeze precipitate or evaporate to retrieve your DMT
Remember that regardless of washing, its still very important to make sure there are no solvent traces in your spice, which can be done with thorough air drying, or redissolving your dmt in a non-toxic (or less toxic) solvent like ethanol, or pure IPA/Acetone, and evapping that again
No precipitation or low yield?
- Powder/shredd the material better before extracting. If that is not possible, leave in basic soup for longer if it's STB or boil for longer time and do 4x boils instead of 3x.
- Stir/mix and let separate the layers many times over a longer period of time before pulling the solvent out of the mix, dont just let it stand.
- If freeze precipitating, evap till theres only a quarter of the naphtha left and repeat freeze precip.
- Add more lye/base in the basic solution and try again, with small warm, thoroughly mixed pulls
- If its evapped and it seems like small amount of goo, it may actually be more than it seems because goo is heavier crystals. Recrystallize goo as FAQ instructions or infuse some herbs and weigh herbs before and after infusing to know exact yield.
- Bad mimosa/plant material
- Not the right solvent (if solvent has aromatics like xylene mixed in, it wont freeze precipitate, and will evap into a gooey product, mix of dmt and other plant impurities)
Melting/dissapearing crystals after freeze precipitation / Whats the best way to retrieve crystals after freezing?
This usually happens because of remaining solvent residues warming up and redissolving the crystals.
A trick to work around that is to freeze precipitate for a day or so (if you already have the melted crystals, then redissolve them in small amounts of warm naphtha and back into the freezer), and after crystals have precipitated, take it out of the freezer, pour the naphtha off (through coffee filter just in case any crystals are not stuck to the container), close the container and put it upside down in the freezer for some more hours. This way, any remaining naphtha trapped inside the crystals will drop off to the lid of the container on the bottom.
So after those few hours, take out out of the freezer, opening the lid still upside down so the naphtha drops off, and then you can scrape the drier crystals, put them on top of a coffee filter or on a plate/petri dish to finish air drying, and voilá.
The container used for precipitation is ideally something with a lid that closes well, like a mason jar, and that the edges and walls are straight so you can scrape it off more easily. Scrape as much as you can of the dmt, and whatever is left inside, leave it and reuse the container for the next precipitation, or if its the last precipitation of the extraction, you can use some alcohol (or even naphtha, if its clean evapping naphtha) to pick the last bits up and evaporate in a dish or easy to scrape flat-bottom wide container.
Only getting goo with Acacia extraction
How to safely heat a solvent ?
With the solvent safely stored far away, boil some water with any method you want. Once water is boiled, turn off heat source, get the solvent, put it in a glass and submerge the bottom of the glass on a pot containing your recently boiled water. In some seconds/minutes your solvent should be warm and you can use it for recrystallizing or pulling. NEVER warm up solvents directly with a heat source, especially avoiding a gas/open flame heat source. Do not even use electrical equipment unless it's a safe laboratory hotplate made for such purposes that will guarantee not to create sparks.
How does one recrystallize?
1- Boil some water. Turn off the fire.
2- Add your impure spice to a shotglass (weigh it before to know the amount).
3- Add around 20-30ml of naphtha/heptane/hexane per gram of impure spice to the shotglass.
4- submerge the bottom of the glass in the water. Leave it standing and/or stir it around a little bit. Most of the spice should redissolve in a few minutes, but probably a layer of goo will stay on the bottom.
5-Decant or pippette your naphtha away from the goo, put this naphtha in a clean container, close it, and into the freezer overnight for freeze precipitation. Alternatively, instead of freezing, if one wants to grow large crystals, put in a container with the lid semi-closed and/or in a place with very little air circulation, so that the naphtha evaporates very slowly. The slower the evap, the larger the crystal growth.
Its possible small amount of spice is still in the goo, so you can add another 5 or 10ml to the shotglass with the goo to pick up the last bits of dmt. This second pull will be more impure as it will pick some oils up, so freeze precipitate it separately. The goo can then be discarded
If one doesnt have a scale or for some reason cant weigh the spice, warm up a quantity of naphtha in a shotglass without the dmt and slowly add small quantities of the warm naphtha to the container containing dmt while stiring, until most dmt dissolved but a bottom layer of goo remains. Then follow step 5. http://wiki.dmt-nexus.me/FAQ#Can_I_make_one_long_cook_instead_of_3_shorter_ones.3F
How many times can I reuse my solvent?
What to do with the waste?
How Can I Extract DMT From Phalaris?
Phalaris is a genus of grasses with very variable alkaloid content, which means it's very hard or impossible to really say if a given Phalaris will have a good alkaloid content in terms of what alkaloids are present and in what amounts. Some Phalaris have very little to no DMT (or 5-MeO-DMT or Beta-Carbolines), and yet have plenty of potentially toxic alkaloids such as gramine, while others have good amounts of wanted tryptamines and low gramine content. There are also tryptamines and beta-carbolines in Phalaris which have unknown activity and safety profile such as 5-MeO-NMT and others. This variability is especially the case with wild Phalaris or those grown from seeds so, for a more reliable alkaloid content, the clones of known strains such as AQ1, Big Medicine (for DMT) and Turkey Red (for 5-MeO-DMT) are probably a better bet.
Even though some people have reported some variable success, we do NOT recommend people to ingest a crude brew made with Phalaris grass due to the unknown amounts of possible toxic alkaloids. If using Phalaris, extract it first as mentioned below
If growing Phalaris yourself, thispublication goes over all the factors of growth that affect the alkaloid content. Please check it out. Here's some selected quotes:
- "The highest concentration (of alkaloids) is in the upper third part of the seedling leaf."
- "The total alkaloid concentration decreases with plant maturity"
- "Total alkaloids are more concentrated in the first regrowth, after the cutting or grazing, than in the first growth just after sowing, decreasing then in the following regrowths"
- "The availability of soil nitrogen increases the alkaloids concentration"
- "In soil, but not in nutrient solution cultivations, the concentration of indole alkaloids (...) increase is greater in plants supplied with ammonium nitrogen compared to the nitric source"
- "Samples of P. arundinacea growing with 20% of the full sunlight can contain an amount of DMT about twice compared to control; 5-MeO-DMT may increase up to a factor of 25"
- "DMT seems to show a maximum in the first hours of the morning, at least in shaded plants, whereas 5-MeODMT reaches a concentration peak in late morning"
Regarding the extraction itself, the plant should be extracted as soon as possible after harvesting since plant enzyme activity can break down alkaloids, even if drying the plant. If plant is not extracted immediately, it should be stored in an alcoholic solution in cold and dark. For extraction, a standard A/B could potentially work well, boiling plant material 3x in acidic water (pH anywhere from 1-6 should work), filtering, reducing to small manageable amount by low boil or simmering, and then basing with NaOH and pulling with solvent. Alternatively, a dry tek (check the nexus extraction teks wiki for more info) with calcium hydroxide or sodium carbonate could work but there haven't been enough tests to say for sure.
Regarding what solvents to use, hexane/heptane or equivalent solvents such as naphtha should work well as gramine is very poorly soluble in it, but if using naphtha make sure that it doesn't contain xylene or aromatics mixed in. Some people report specially low yields with naphtha and suggest cooking oil or room temperature limonene instead (check hippie salad oil tek link below) Cold/room temperature limonene also seems to work to separate tryptamines from gramine but more work needs to be done to make sure this separation is good enough. Check the Phalaris analysis thread for the most up-to-date info, since solubility tests on gramine are being done right now. If using naphtha or similar hydrocarbons, doing a recrystallization is a good idea to help removing other unwanted alkaloids that may have come across. Using less selective solvents like DCM, xylene, toluene or others (or acetone or alcohols in a dry tek) would pull the potentially toxic unwanted alkaloids, so its not recommended to use those, unless you do a clean up at the end
If you extract from Phalaris, we would be very thankful if you document the process (notes and/or pictures) and post so that we all can learn about the results, whether they are good or not. Please try smoking/ingesting only a very small amount at first if you do. Ideally, purchase colorimetric reagents such as marquis or ehrlich to help identifying the final product if it contains the wanted alkaloids (more info in the Phalaris analysis thread )
- Phalaris analysis thread
- Hippie salad oil tek v 2
- Phalaris way of the future thread
- PDF on processing phalaris
Can I use another solvent like xylene after having pulled with naphtha?
DMT Usage/Methods of administration
Is my DMT ok to smoke? Is yellow or are other colors of DMT bad?
Often people ask in the forum if their spice is ok to smoke. Please check link below for detailed information:
How to brew ayahuasca or analogues (mimosa hostilis / syrian rue)?
The standard way of brewing is to first of all have the material powdered/grinded or pounded as fine as possible. Then
- 1- boil on low fire (or simmer) the plant material for around three hours (some people do even longer but not necessary unless material is too coarsely shredded.. Also energetic/ecological costs become higher). Use mineral or distilled water ideally, some tap water can have too high pH and diminish yields/potency. Use enough water to cover the plant material.
- 2- filter/strain the brew to separate the liquids and solids, store the liquid separately,
- 3- add fresh water to the solids and boil everything again. Do this for a total of 3 or 4 times,
- 4- put the liquid from the 3 or 4x boils together, keep filtered/decanted solids separately for stp 6,
- 5- reduce the liquid on low fire/simmer to a manageable ammount, like for example 70ml per dose (dosages/amounts of each plant in this thread
- 6- If you want to be very thorough and get all the alkaloids out, you can now soak the plant material in vinegar for a day, then freeze and thaw it, then boil it for another hour or two. This should have a significant amount of alkaloids, which can either be extracted by basing and filtering like the Easy Caapi Extraction Tek, and the alkaloids added to the main brew (or consumed separately in some other occasion), or you could also consume this orally directly but due to the vinegar it will taste very bad, so it's better to at least base it with sodium carbonate slowly until it stops bubbling and/or reaches a pH of around 6, and then it will taste better.
The MAOI containing plant (banisteriopsis caapi vine or syrian rue) can be boiled together with the DMT containing plant (psychotria viridis or mimosa hostilis, or just add some extracted dmt in appropriate dosage to the caapi/rue brew), but specially if its the first time with a particular plant batch, its recommended to brew separately the two, and first find out the potency of the plant by drinking first a small amount.
An acid can be added to the brew (such as a dash of lemon or vinegar), but this is not strictly necessary (and neither the traditional indigenous way), specially if your plant is finely powdered, because alkaloids in the plant are naturally in water-soluble form. Though acid can increase the potency of the brew (specially for non-powdered plant material), it will also make it taste worse. To get the best out of all the worlds, its recommended to do step 6, so you have a better tasting brew without acid, but you still get any remaining alkaloids at the end in the final acid soak.
Whats the best smoking method?
The visual diagram for dmt usage gives some tips not only on vaporizing methods but other tips, check it out.
Different people preffer different methods. FORGET THE LIGHTBULB METHOD as it only works for a small percentage of people, most report problems.
For those that don`t have money enough to buy a GVG as detailed below, you can make your own vaporizing Green Buddha Pipe:
Vaporgenie / GVG
A big number of people in the Nexus claim the vaporgenie to be the best vaporizing method by far! The vaporgenie is claimed to be significantly more effective as well as having a much smoother vapor than other smoking methods so if one is having trouble with harsh smoke or low effects, try the vaporgenie out. The Glass VaporGenie is recommended but otherwise the classic one will work perfectly fine.
The first thing if you're vaporizing pure DMT, is to get a ceramic disc or a volcano liquid pad and cut it up to fit the vaporgenie, otherwise the DMT will melt through the screens, even if it's multiple screens. Check the vaporgenie thread linked below for more details
Begin with the flame a few cms above the top and adjust as you go. With empty lungs, start inhaling slowly and steady. The idea is to inhale a dense vapour, but not too dense so that you start coughing. Its better to begin the inhaling with a not so dense smoke, and then make it denser towards the end. Keep the vapor in the lungs for as long as possible, at least 10 seconds. If you coughed or exhaled before this or couldnt inhale with all the lungs, try keeping the flame further away or adjusting the speed of inhaling so that its a bit less dense.
Usually it takes anywhere between 1-3 hits, or anywhere between 25-50mg for a full breakthrough, if you got your technique right. A torch lighter is recommended, but a normal lighter will also work fine.
- If you cant or dont want to afford a vaporgenie, a good possibility is to make your own vaporization tool like:
amorfati's Inspirator MKII
For a vaporization to be really effective, the DMT should be heated by convection (hot air), not conduction (hot glass/pipe/material), so vaporgenie and inspirator are recommended. If you dont want to use these methods, there are other possibilities which are less effective and risk burning DMT instead of just vaporizing, but it does work decently enough for many people:
- Bong/leaf bed/enhanced leaf
One method also considered successful by some is in a water bong (or plain bong), with a couple of metal screens, a thick layer of ashes or thin layer of herbs on the bottom, then the dmt in the middle, and then another thick layer of ashes or thin layer of herbs on top. It is essential to go very easy on the fire, because too much heat will degrade DMT. Keep the lighter as far away as possible so that it still vaporizes but doesnt over-heat your DMT 50mg seems to be a good dose if one wants to really go inside the dmt dimension. Inhale slowly and deeply, holding in the lungs as much as possible (at least a few seconds), exhaling, and then taking a second, third one if possible, and even fourth one if one still can. Even if after the first there are already some effects, if one really wants to breakthrough, gotta keep going as much as one can.
Specifically for enhanced leaf check link below
Check links below
- VG VaporGenie: How to use, where to get, advantages, etc
- Helps and tips for smoking spice
- My version of the "Machine" - How to make it in <15 minutes
- Ban the Bulb - Modify the Machine
- A guide to enhanced leaf changa
- Thoughts on using a VaporGenie
- Troubles with The Machine
I dont get any effects/light buzz only, what to do?
99% of the times, when people do not get effects, they are having a bad vaporization method, most likely burning the spice. Try one of the methods above, specially the convection-based methods. You need to take full inhalations and hold the vapor in your lungs for as long as possible for more effects.
Another possibility is people who consume psychiatric medication like SSRI's will often significantly reduce the DMT effects. Please consult your doctor before reducing/gradually stopping your medication consumption.
Fear going into a trip
If you're afraid of dark things coming from inside of you and are not willing to face them, you should not consume any psychedelics at all...
If you're afraid but willing to face them, then that's another thing.
And whether it's changa, pharma, or aya or vaporized DMT, it doesn't matter much, those dark things can come out with one or the other.
A low dosage may help, yes, and so can a proper set and setting, but this is no guarantee you won't be facing what you fear the most. It can, and most likely will happen at some point, whether now or after a certain number of experiences. Whenever we take psychedelics, it's as if we sign a contract saying we accept all those possibilities. So think well before signing, and if you do sign, make sure to get all the preparations right before the time come, take it in a proper context and to humbly accept whatever may come, take responsibility for it, and learn from it.
Denied breakthrough / Dark DMT trips / Not good experiences anymore ?
It happens with several people that they feel they aren't getting good experiences anymore, that the trips are consistently of dark motifs, negative feelings, or that the breakthrough is denied, regardless of dosage. There isn't a ready answer for why this happens, but it seems a few factors may be related to it. In many cases, this happens when people are having a regular or excessive DMT use, or when they haven't been dedicating enough to their daily lives, to integration of the experiences. Also, it may have in some cases to do with the intentions one sets before vaporizing the DMT, and with how one's mind state and the context in general is.
So a few tips on how to deal with this issue:
1- Take a break! The DMT hyperspace will always be there, there is no rush to go right now! Stop your DMT usage (and maybe drug usage altogether), dedicate to daily life, live a balanced healthy life, eat well, exercise, study, work. Do not obsess about DMT, try to only come back once you feel you have really made enough effort in improving your daily life. At least a few months break is recommended.
2- If and once you do decide to try it again, make sure it is a good place and time for it. Take care with using in the best set and setting possible (look further down the FAQ for recommended setting).
3- Do not smoke it impulsively. Meditate or spend a few minutes in silence, concentrating, breathing deeply and slowly.
4- Set your intentions straight. Question yourself why you are doing this. Try to have the best intentions and reasons as possible.
5- Use a good smoking method such as the vaporgenie or others as recommended above.
6- If it still doesnt work out for you, take an even longer break (many months/years), and/or stop it altogether. Realize that maybe DMT is just not for you. Its not a problem to admit one's relationship with a substance is not working, in fact, it shows you're being humble and conscious.
- Health and Safety section: Integration
- what happened to the bright side?
- Vaporized DMT not having an effect in those who it has worked for previously
What are the dosages for ... ?
What is the best setting/context to consume spice?
Check visual diagram for dmt usage for some tips on setting, preparation and also integration
- A comfortable quiet place is generally recommended. If there are friends around they should be requested to remain quiet while someone is embarking on this experience and only start speaking once the explorer talks himself and allows others. Possibility of telefone ringing or street noises or other interruptions is definitely NOT recommended.
- The presence of music or not depends a lot on personal taste. Some prefer full silence to 'concentrate' more deeply and mention that any stimulus keeps them too grounded in usual reality, while others can have very deep interconnected experiences with certain music of their own preference (often being some kind of chill out/ambient/ethno ).
- Many people preffer full darkness or indirect lighting, but sunset or sunrise in a nice nature place (if safe) can also be marvelous.
- Obviously DO NOT have sharp objects around, smoke next to cliffs, driving etc...
- It is very rare, but it may happen that one feels nauseated and/or vomits, so specially first times or those doing alone, its also recommended to have a bucket nearby, and to sit comfortably, resting the back against something soft in a way that you wont slip or fall, such as an armchair, bed with backrest/pillows or comfortable sofa.
- While we are not aware of any deaths, it would be irresponsible to discount the possibility that blocking your airway while deep in hyperspace could prove fatal, so be in a position/place where you are safe even if not conscious of the surroundings. During traditional ayahuasca ceremonies participants sit on the floor or in a comfortable chair. We recommend sitting upright (slightly reclined for stability) comfortably because the launch is far more immediate and surprising with vaporised DMT. Think of it as your pilot seat- you wouldn't fly a plane any other way!
- If you do not have a sitter to take the pipe from you, be sure that you have a safe and easy place very near to put it down when you feel hyperspace approaching. You will not be inclined to move your hand very far, so we would recommend a fireproof shelf of sorts less than a foot away. Just smoking cigarettes in bed kills many people every year, and obviously the same dangers are relevent with DMT. We have heard one report of a member who returned from an unenjoyable trip to find that she had dropped the pipe onto her leg, resulting in a nasty burn.
- Prior meditation or at least focusing on intention and inner calm can be benefiting.
- Remember to let go, dont struggle. Its normal that the hearbeat accelerates in the come up. Some people fear they are dying or that they wont return, but dont worry FOR SURE you come back, as it has happened with everybody else. Some people feel that they lose their breath, but its just a feeling.. As long as the airway is not physically blocked, then dont worry our body has a built-in mechanism that prevents one from stopping breathing.
- Dont be scared, entities cant hurt you in real life if you dont believe it. Try to not make 'good/bad' judgements during the experience, dont resist!! Just go with the flow of the ride. Some images may appear positive, negative, incredible, impossible to describe, etc, but you are safe regardless of what comes.
What about other ingestion methods (intranasal, intrarectal, Atomizer/E-cig etc) ?
Can DMT be IVed?
It can, but we do not recommend it mainly for two reasons:
1- The only official research done with DMT by Rick Strassmann used FDA-approved very pure DMT fumarate. The quality of home extraction products might be questionable, one may have solvent traces and other impurities that could be uncomfortable, painful or downright dangerous to inject.
2- The onset of the effects are so quick that one might not be able to take out the needle in time and accidentally ripping their vein out while in hyperspace, or putting it down too near and rolling around/puncturing oneself
If one still decides to do it, then please: Use food-safe/USP grade chemicals to extract, take care in making many purifying steps (several recrystallizations/washes) and making sure it has no solvent or other chemical traces in the final product (redissolving the recrystallized product in USP grade acetone or ethanol and re-evaporating, scrapping and letting it dry completely before converting to fumarates in a sterile solution, etc.). Check the first link below for tips on how to prepare for injection and safety proceedures
Also, for the first try, take at most 0.2mg/kg, preferably less. And VERY importantly, do NOT do it by yourself, have a sitter that is experienced with needles inject for you and be there to make sure you are physically safe.
- Entheogen Review article on safe injection proceedure
- iv dmt
- IV DMT
- IV DMT?
- Injecting DMT
- FASA safe for injection?
How can I estimate the amount of mimosa?
Does DMT go bad?
The main degradation product of dmt seems to be dmt n-oxide, which is also psychoactive. Some people enjoy and find qualitative difference in n-oxide compared to dmt. On the other hand, other people report negative experiences with old spice, but it is unknown how much is self-suggestion and how much is really true. The rate at which dmt converts to n-oxide logically depends on factors such as air exposure and temperature, but so far there havent been any quantitative tests to tell how fast it goes in a given condition.
In any case, n-oxide can be converted back to dmt using zinc dust, see link below
Many people convert the freebase to dmt fumarate for storage, as its claimed to be a more stable salt.
Does mimosa/dmt-containing plants go bad?
Generally mimosa and other dmt containing plants like acacia should not go bad even after months/years. If it looks fine and doesnt have some mutant fungus growing on it, its perfect :) There are reports of people using mimosa that was for many months or even years in a drawer without any significant problem (though as with anything, its always more prudent to store in dark, dry, cold place).
The main possible degradation is of dmt into dmt n-oxide. Dmt n-oxide is also psychoactive, but it is not soluble in naphtha, which may cause some people to get small yields when extracting from older bark. N-oxide is soluble in limonene/xylene/toluene/etc, so one could extract it with those solvents without loss of yield. Alternatively, N-oxide can be converted back to dmt using zinc dust, see link below
For oral usage of mimosa, formation of n-oxide wouldnt really affect much as it will be water soluble so one will still get the effects when consuming the brew.
Whats the best way to store DMT?
As with mostly anything, a dark, airtight, dry and cold place is the best, but dmt is reasonably stable and one doesnt have to worry much appart from dmt-n-oxide (see question 6.1)
In any case, one can also convert to dmt fumarate which is a very stable salt form of dmt
Whats the best way to store Mimosa?
As with mostly anything, a dark, airtight, dry and cold place is the best, but dmt is reasonably stable and one doesnt have to worry much appart from dmt-n-oxide (see question 6.1)
Logically, bark in pieces will keep better than when powdered
What is jungle spice ?
http://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359543#post359543 Jungle Spice is the product resulting from an extraction of mimosa hostilis using a solvent more polar than naphtha (such as xylene, toluene, limonene, ether, DCM, etc). Sometimes people also call it JimJam, which was first called only for limonene extracted products, but analysis shown it to be equivalent to what is extracted with xylene. Chemical analysis has shown that both naphtha as well as xylene/limonene extract mostly DMT (around 90%), plus around or under 1% 2-methy-1,2,3,4-tetrahydro-beta-carboline (2MTHBC) and NMT. The psychoactivity of 2MTHBC is unknown at this point, and NMT does appear to be psychoactive, though a quarter of the potency of DMT. Appart from these mentioned alkaloids, Xylene, when evaporated, and both limonene or xylene, when salted with an acidic solution like vinegar or FASW, also yield around 0.2% MTHBC (tetrahydroharman), and what could be 1,2-dimethyl-tetrahydrobetacarboline or a yuremamine degradation product (as suggested by dozuki in the jungle spice analysis thread linked below). Very little to nothing is known about these two 'extra' beta-carbolines in junglespice/jimjam, if they are psychoactive or can potentiate DMT.
Some people claim jungle spice to be stronger or produce a different experience than pure DMT. This may be self-suggestion (people thinking it is stronger/different therefore feeling it), it may be that the inactive oils/impurities present in jungle spice somehow protect DMT from heat, making a more effective vaporization, and therefore feel stronger. It may also be that the beta carbolines together, have a synergistic effect with DMT making a stronger experience, or it may be that these beta carbolines would only really be noticeable if they were in a larger quantity as is the case with some Acacias. It may be a mixture of any or all of the above possibilities.
Only further testing (such as blind self-experiments and more analysis) will help us isolating the variables and answer the questions on junglespice's activity
For more information on jungle spice, check the links below
What is changa / How to make changa ?
What type of caapi/ayahuasca vine should I use, what are the differences ?
Different ethnobotanical suppliers seem to stock different varieties of caapi. Often they use color names (for example black caapi, white caapi, etc), or other names used by local / mestizos / indigenous people (caupuri, ourinhos, etc). The problem is that there is no consensus regarding the classification of different caapi vines, so some indigenous people may recognize 2 types, in another tribe they may recognize 10 types, and so on. These types may overlap or they may even be in contradiction with each other. Also botanists would not necessarily agree with those types, as sometimes classification from indigenous people is not based on how a plant looks, but also on its effects, purpose, etc. In fact, some of what is sold as "black/red/whatever caapi" may even be of a different genus/species altogether (more discussion on this on links below)
There is an ongoing analysis project going on with different caapi/ayahuasca vines (link below), and it seems some caapis have very similar alkaloid/chemical component even if they have different names, while others may have quite different content even if they are named the same. The difference can be in ratio of alkaloids or total alkaloid yield, for example some black caapi from one vendor yielded over 2% alkaloids, a black caapi from another vendor yielded 0.5%.
Regarding the type/function/effects of different caapis, at this point any conclusions and generalizations are not possible. As an example, at times it's said that black caapi is used for more witchcraft kind of rituals by some shamans, but this doesnt mean that: a- that particular group is "correct", b-that other groups would agree with what they call "black caapi", c- That the black caapi you find is equivalent to that, d- that you cant use it for another purpose and have a great experience regardless.
It may be that there is a pattern between alkaloid content of different caapi vines (some may have more harmaline, or more THH, etc), but at this point we cannot yet say. Also even if a correctly identified subtype of caapi would have a specific alkaloid content, we would still have to make the assumption that the vendors are actually identifying correctly.
If you want to decide what type of caapi to get, one thing you could do is check the suppliers section and see if this specific caapi from the specific vendor has been reviewed, and dont believe in generalizations (all caapi "X" is strong and gives dark trips, all caapi "Y" is light and for beginners). Start with low dosage (10-20g) for the first time to gauge the strenght of this particular batch you have acquired, and then raise the dosage accordingly if necessary.
Another thing to do is to buy at least 2 different types and then take them in separate occasions, and then sharing the results with the community, and that way we all grow together.
Do check the links below as they have very relevant discussions regarding the different caapi types:
- Caapi analysis thread
- Poorly understood family of ayahuasca vines
- Alicia anisopetala and macrodisca workthread
- tetrapterys methystica (painted caapi) and other kinds of caapi
- Which caapi should I get ?
What are the best DMT-containing plants in my area ?
One good way to check what DMT plants you have around you is to look at the Nexus Wiki lists for plants containing DMT (or 5-MeO-DMT ) . Then use the search function of discoverlife page or bonap to search the plants names and see in the species map if any of the good candidates grow near you, or alternatively, you can first identify the plants growing around you and search for their scientific name on the mentioned wiki lists.
If you don't find any plants growing around you, you can consider cultivating some ideal plants yourself, for example checking out the Top Acacias To Grow Worldwide Thread for the mid-long term, or getting known cuttings of phalaris with good alkaloid content such as AQ1 and big medicine (for more info check all the links in the first post of the Phalaris Analysis thread) which can be harvested pretty quick
What is the best plant source for 5-MeO-DMT ?
Does this plant contain DMT ?
Before posting pictures and asking for ID or if the plant has DMT, please:
1- First do an initial homework on what plants of interest grow in your area.
If it's a suspected Acacia, use this Acacia ID tool, also for info on different species look up the Acacia Information Thread and this page, see if you can find any info about your geographical area. If it's a suspected Mimosa, look at the Mimosa spp. workthread, if it's a suspected Phalaris read the Phalaris Analysis thread to find if there's any relevant info.
Those threads contain information on seed suppliers, geographic location, season of harvest, conditions of growth and variation in alkaloid content, etc, which the person should become familiar with.
2- Do your own preliminary guesswork before asking others. What do you think is the plant you found? You can use plant-identifying phone apps like PlantSnap or pl@ntnet to help trying to narrow down suspected ID's.
3- Take detailed pictures of the different plant parts (overall plant, leaf close up front and back, seedpods and flower close ups if they are there). Often to differentiate between species the details are important, so blurry bad quality pictures or single pictures with no close ups or details of different plant parts are not enough.
4- Post your ID request in the Acacia /Mimosa ID thread if it's a suspected Acacia or Mimosa, or make a new thread if it's a differen't plant. Be sure to say what plant you think it is, and include information such as general geographic area, the detailed pics above, and any possible differences you may have seen with the plant you think it is.
5- If your plant gets identified and you plan on harvesting, please only harvest sustainably! Check this post for more information
6- It is recommended that you do some sort of basic analysis to see if plant has the alkaloids of interest. Simplest method would be getting a reagent like Ehrlich, doing a simple ethanol soak on a small amount of your suspected plant material, and after evapping the ethanol you use a drop of ehrlich on the extract. If it turns purple, its a good indication there are related alkaloids, it is not a final identification but at least it's a good sign. One can also use TLC kits for more accurate identification of compounds, or go for a full lab test which is being offered for free for Nexians (as of sept 2018, check the thread for updates).
DMT Nexus Forum and Wiki Questions
Why can't I post in some threads as a new member ? How do I get promoted?
To prevent influx of badly intended members and people with a wrong attitude, new members are restricted to posting in the Welcome Area until they get promoted, which is usually just a matter of short time and a few genuine posts. Be patient, do not keep asking for being promoted, it will happen soon enough!
New members can be promoted by mod's decision, or by democratic voting, since all full members can vote if a new member should be promoted or not, and once a threshold of votes is reached, the member is automatically promoted. Going against our attitude or asking questions that are easily answered by looking at the FAQ or doing a simple search will probably delay promotion. Posting in a friendly respectful manner, posting in available open threads in the welcome area, as well as posting an introduction essay telling a bit about yourself will help increasing the chances of the promotion.
- DMT Frequently Asked Questions and Troubleshooting Guide